Tag Archives: By Stanton Friedman

UFO Propulsion Systems – Pt I (Redux)

UFO Propulsion Systems

Stanton Friedman
By Stanton T. Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
7-13-05

     If we deduce from the mountain of evidence that some flying saucers come to earth from near-by solar systems (there are one thousand stars within fifty-five light years, forty-six of which are like the sun), we are immediately faced with two questions:

1). How can a spaceship travel from a near-by solar system to earth in a reasonable time?

2). Once here, how can flying saucers behave the way they are observed to behave?

How do they achieve their reported high speed flight in the atmosphere (thousands of miles per hour), their ability to stop and start abruptly, to move up and down back and forth seemingly with none of the limitations of conventional aircraft? Typically there are no external engines, wings or tails. Usually the objects are relatively silent compared to conventional craft, and a variety of physical and psychological effects are produced on living and inanimate objects in the vicinity. These are the truly technological challenges we face.

The problem must be divided into two parts because there is no good reason to assume that the same propulsion system is used for the long haul and local portions of the trip. It seems reasonable to assume that the huge cigar-shaped “mother ships” into and out of which the smaller disc-shaped craft fly, are the interstellar vehicles and the others are “Earth Excursion Modules” for local travel only.

Mother ships are rarely observed cavorting or flying close to ground level. In Ted Phillips huge collection of trace cases more then 90% of the low-level vehicles are “disc-shaped.” A useful analogy here is the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise, which is nuclear powered and operates at low speed for many months and or years on the surface of the ocean. The much smaller aircraft it carries cannot operate on the ocean but can fly at high speed and altitude for short periods and are highly maneuverable; but they are not nuclear-powered and neither craft could replace the other.

The problem of traveling to the stars must also be viewed from an entirely different perspective then is useful for understanding our recent flights to the moon and flights of instrument packages to other planets. Distances within the solar system can be measured in light seconds, light-minutes, or at most in a few light-hours. Stars at least several light-years away; our chemical rockets carry our astronauts to the moon in about sixty-0nine hours, and the Viking Spacecraft to Mars took about ten months to reach its destination. But they are propelled by forces other then gravity for only seventeen minutes or one hour respectively. The rockets are coasting or slowing down until they are close to the target for almost the entire trip.

The Apollo spacecraft, at an altitude of two hundred thousand miles, is only going two thousand mile per hour although it left the earth going twenty-five thousand miles per hour. If it had been able to accelerate at just one G (a twenty-one-mile increase every second) for just one hour, the final velocity would have been 79,000 mph; for just one day it would have been 1.9 million mph! Peak acceleration during an Apollo launch is actually closer to eight G’s (a 168-mph increase every second).

To understand there forgoing a bit better, note that the acceleration of one G at the surface of the earth equals 32. 17 feet per second, which in turn means that as each second passes velocity is increasing an additional 32.17 feet.

Translated into miles per hour (mph), one-G acceleration means that velocity is increasing at the rate of 21.9 mph per second! At the end of two seconds it is 21.9 mph plus 21.9 mph, or 43.8 mph, and at the end of three seconds is 64.7 mph, and so on.

In just one day at one-G acceleration a velocity of almost two million mph would be reached and the craft would be far out of earth’s gravitational field. For each operation near the earth, gravity effectively pulls the craft at 1260 mph; while in space there is practically no gravitational or atmospheric friction. It is extremely important to recognize that it take approximately one year at one G to approach the speed of light—about 670.000,000 mph—and we can speculate that any space travelers may have refueling or rest and relaxation centers at locations between the stars, so that our earth visitors need not have come directly from their home planet.

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Stanton Friedman Chimes in On Alleged Roswell Alien Slides (Redux)

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Stanton Friedman Chimes in On Alleged Roswell Alien Slides

Stanton Friedman
By Stanton T. Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
3-29-15

“I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell.”

     I keep being asked my views about the so-called “Roswell” Slides. So, let me summarize my position. I have tried to obtain as much information as possible and responded with interest when at the International UFO Congress in Scottsdale, Arizona, in Mid-February, I was interviewed by journalist Jaime Maussan of Mexico City who has arranged for a huge event focused on the slides. I recall the so called Roswell Autopsy which turned out to be a fiasco. I had spoken with Ray Santilli over the phone, checked on a number of his claims which turned out to be false, met with him twice in England and even had some comments distributed at his big press conference.

Jaime invited me to attend the May 5, Mexico City, conference as had Don Schmitt. My expenses would be paid. My first thought was that since I would be asked about my views, as the original civilian investigator of the Roswell crashed saucer event, it would be nice to have first hand information. This being the worst winter in our 35 years in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada, it would also be nice to get to some warm weather. So I read as much as I could, positive and negative. I have not held copies of the slides. I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell. How would an outsider gain access to the real bodies? I worked under security for 14 years and have been to classified facilities in New Mexico. The barriers are tough. I have seen no specific data to convince me that these are phony. But that doesn’t establish a connection with Roswell events. Yes, I am still convinced that alien spacecraft with bodies on board crashed near Corona, in the Plains of San Augustin, and near Aztec. But I don’t want to appear to add legitimacy by my presence in Mexico City in the absence of serious evidence of the slides being what is being claimed they are. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence and I have a large “gray” basket.

Continue Reading . . .

Visit Stan’s Site . . .

See Also:

‘Roswell Slides’: A 20th Anniversary Commemoration of ‘Alien Autopsy’ Hoax?

What if the Roswell Slides Saga is a Social Experiment or a Hoax?

Another Promotional Trailer for Roswell Alien Slides & Upcoming Show | VIDEO

Carey & Schmitt Walk Back Roswell Alien Slides Story | VIDEO – INTERVIEW

The Roswell Slides ARE NOT the Roswell Slides | VIDEO

Roswell Aliens Slides Shot at White Sands Missile Range? | VIDEO

ROSWELL ALIEN SLIDES UPDATE: Original Evidence Won’t Be Shown in Mexico?

The Roswell Slides and Stan Friedman

The Roswell Slides and the ‘Lieutenant’

Stanton Friedman Chimes in On Alleged Roswell Alien Slides and His Declination to Participate in Upcoming Show

The Roswell Slides Saga: Some Claims vs Some Facts

Is This Mummy the Famous “Alien” in the Roswell Slides?

The Roswell Slides – A Matter of Provenance

‘Roswell Slides’ or Fraud Prints?

The Roswell Slides Time Bomb: Tick, Tick, Tick

The Roswell Slides and a Little Hypocrisy

The Roswell Slides: Adios

‘Roswell Alien Slides’ Owner Speaks Out

The Roswell Slides and Me (Kevin Randle)

More Info On Roswell Alien Slides; Adam Dew Interviewed By Chicago News Station | VIDEO

Chicago Man Uncovered Secret Alien Pics? | VIDEO

Spying on the Roswell Slides

Sneak Peak at The Roswell Alien Slides?

Live Press Conference with Roswell Alien Slides Researchers | VIDEO

Pictures of the Beings Found in Roswell to Be Presented by Jaime Maussan | VIDEO

Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson is Shown Roswell Alien Slides | VIDEO

Maussan Explains Origin of Roswell Alien Slides & Upcoming Show | VIDEO

First Glimpse of Roswell Alien Slides Documentary – Surprise! | VIDEO

Roswell Alien Slides To Be Unveiled in May Via a Live Streamed Event

The Roswell Slides and the Aztec UFO Crash

The Roswell Slides and Premature Disclosure

Roswell Researcher, Tom Carey Announces Discovery of Alien Photographs | VIDCAST

“Two Color Kodachrome Slides … Purport To Show A Glass-Encased Alien Cadaver”

Real Alien Autopsy Photos: ‘Roswell’ Image Of Extra-Terrestrial Body Dated To 1947

Roswell UFO Researcher Claims He Has Alien Photos | VIDEO

Noted Roswell Researcher Talks of ‘Smoking Gun Evidence’ at University Forum

“How Often Does An Honors Class Take A Serious Look At UFOS?”

Journalist, Miles O’Brien To Moderate UFO Panel at American University | VIDEO

New Details of Alleged Roswell Alien Slides/Photos Revealed

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

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Stanton Friedman Chimes in On Alleged Roswell Alien Slides and His Declination to Participate in Upcoming Show

Stanton Friedman Chimes in On Alleged Roswell Alien Slides

The “Roswell Slides”: Commentary by Stanton Friedman March 29, 2015

Stanton Friedman
By Stanton T. Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
3-29-15

“I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell.”

     I keep being asked my views about the so-called “Roswell” Slides. So, let me summarize my position. I have tried to obtain as much information as possible and responded with interest when at the International UFO Congress in Scottsdale, Arizona, in Mid-February, I was interviewed by journalist Jaime Maussan of Mexico City who has arranged for a huge event focused on the slides. I recall the so called Roswell Autopsy which turned out to be a fiasco. I had spoken with Ray Santilli over the phone, checked on a number of his claims which turned out to be false, met with him twice in England and even had some comments distributed at his big press conference.

Jaime invited me to attend the May 5, Mexico City, conference as had Don Schmitt. My expenses would be paid. My first thought was that since I would be asked about my views, as the original civilian investigator of the Roswell crashed saucer event, it would be nice to have first hand information. This being the worst winter in our 35 years in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada, it would also be nice to get to some warm weather. So I read as much as I could, positive and negative. I have not held copies of the slides. I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell. How would an outsider gain access to the real bodies? I worked under security for 14 years and have been to classified facilities in New Mexico. The barriers are tough. I have seen no specific data to convince me that these are phony. But that doesn’t establish a connection with Roswell events. Yes, I am still convinced that alien spacecraft with bodies on board crashed near Corona, in the Plains of San Augustin, and near Aztec. But I don’t want to appear to add legitimacy by my presence in Mexico City in the absence of serious evidence of the slides being what is being claimed they are. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence and I have a large “gray” basket.

Visit Stan’s Site . . .

See Also:

The Roswell Slides Saga: Some Claims vs Some Facts

Is This Mummy the Famous “Alien” in the Roswell Slides?

The Roswell Slides – A Matter of Provenance

‘Roswell Slides’ or Fraud Prints?

The Roswell Slides Time Bomb: Tick, Tick, Tick

The Roswell Slides and a Little Hypocrisy

The Roswell Slides: Adios

‘Roswell Alien Slides’ Owner Speaks Out

The Roswell Slides and Me (Kevin Randle)

More Info On Roswell Alien Slides; Adam Dew Interviewed By Chicago News Station | VIDEO

Chicago Man Uncovered Secret Alien Pics? | VIDEO

Spying on the Roswell Slides

Sneak Peak at The Roswell Alien Slides?

Live Press Conference with Roswell Alien Slides Researchers | VIDEO

Pictures of the Beings Found in Roswell to Be Presented by Jaime Maussan | VIDEO

Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson is Shown Roswell Alien Slides | VIDEO

Maussan Explains Origin of Roswell Alien Slides & Upcoming Show | VIDEO

First Glimpse of Roswell Alien Slides Documentary – Surprise! | VIDEO

Roswell Alien Slides To Be Unveiled in May Via a Live Streamed Event

The Roswell Slides and the Aztec UFO Crash

The Roswell Slides and Premature Disclosure

Roswell Researcher, Tom Carey Announces Discovery of Alien Photographs | VIDCAST

“Two Color Kodachrome Slides … Purport To Show A Glass-Encased Alien Cadaver”

Real Alien Autopsy Photos: ‘Roswell’ Image Of Extra-Terrestrial Body Dated To 1947

Roswell UFO Researcher Claims He Has Alien Photos | VIDEO

Noted Roswell Researcher Talks of ‘Smoking Gun Evidence’ at University Forum

“How Often Does An Honors Class Take A Serious Look At UFOS?”

Journalist, Miles O’Brien To Moderate UFO Panel at American University | VIDEO

New Details of Alleged Roswell Alien Slides/Photos Revealed

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

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MJ-12, CIA, NSA, Secrecy & UFOs

MJ-12, CIA, NSA, Secrecy & UFOs

By Stanton Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
© 11-16-14

    I was out of town at the Travis Walton Sky Fire Summit conference in Arizona and have gotten behind. A number of postings made recently seem to me to be inaccurate:

1. The claim has been made that there really hasn’t been much UFO information covered up. I have, as previously noted, several reasons for saying this isn’t true. Yes, we have 156 pages of NSA TOP SECRET UMBRA UFO Documents “released”(the NSA admitted they had them) way back in the 1980s because of the CAUS legal actions. Dozens of TSU CIA documents were also released. Doesn’t sound like much. Unfortunately the NSA documents were entirely whited out except for one sentence per page because supposedly the rest was Sources and Methods info. The only reason for the “release” was President Clinton’s signing of Executive Order 12958. Implementation was of course delayed. The new EO is 13526.Originally the CIA released no documents above SECRET. It took me 2 years to get the TSU documents usually with only a few words legible per page. All of these are of course roughly 30 years old. Also the NSA HQ told its various offices that if they should receive a request from me, not to handle it in the fashion described in regulations. Instead of replying to me, send the request to HQ, thus avoiding releasing the fact that they had materials. Is there any reason to think there is more data?

2. Surely more was accumulated in the past 30 years. Perhaps more important we have the statement told to me first hand by USAF General Carroll Bolender (and obtained under FOIA by Robert Todd) that UFO reports which could effect National security were not part of the Blue Book System and that if BB was closed, reports which could effect national security would continue to be investigated using the procedures designed for that purpose. Namely JANAP 146 and Air Force Manual 55-11. Note these apply only to the Air Force. To the best of my knowledge none of these have been released.

3. Surely the Aerospace Defense command personnel (pilots, radar operators, spy satellite operators)have been made aware of loads of other sightings by personnel working under security. Furthermore we have all the sightings made by Navy (and army)personnel all over the world. The Navy office said they had no UFO information even after I sent them a joint ONI OSI report.

4. It has been claimed that governments aren’t very good at keeping secrets. Let us not forget that old and powerfully wrong notion that absence of evidence is evidence for absence. Good examples of very large scale government secret keeping include the Manhattan District effort to develop atomic bombs involving tens of thousands of personnel and huge classified facilities in Oak Ridge, TN, Hanford ,WA, Los Alamos, NM,etc and the use of 5% of the electrical power in the United States. Let us not forget the Stealth Aircraft Program under Lockheed.. $10 Billion. Let us not forget the more than 10,000 people involved in breaking the German and Japanese communications codes..kept quiet until 25 years after WW 2 ended. At one time Boeing Corp. had a contract with the NRO to improve the architecture of their spy satellites. It was cancelled after many billion dollars were spent.

5. The objection was made that when lots of secrets are kept there is a major impact on society as a kind of reaction. Best example I know is the very widespread release of false and misleading statements about UFOs by the government and media. This is demonstrated by the serious failure of the press and scientific communities to dig for truth about flying saucers. It is demonstrated also by loads of fiction being broadcast and shown, movies about aliens. Official government lies do indeed have an impact..in this case very negative

6. We have been told that academic historians and experts on intelligence have exposed loads of classified information even though they do not have a need to know or appropriate clearance. No need for guys like me to dig into archival files. The Intelligence agencies would very much like for the public to believe that nonsense. Perhaps they could provide us with the NSA,NRO, and CIA UFO files (that we can read) ? Have they revealed much data from the $52.6 Billion spent on Military Intelligence in one recent year..most by CIA,NSA,NRO?

7. Some have complained about the FOI being an inept procedure. I agree but it can be useful. Remember there is no central clearing house. John Greenewald has managed to dig out a ton of data as demonstrated by his Black Vault web site.. I admire his patience and skill. I have been lied to, but also been helped by FOIA people

8. Perhaps people have forgotten the findings of the Senator Frank Church Congressional committee which found in the early 1970s that at least 400 journalists were closely connected to the CIA, some even on the payroll. Many were associated with major media groups including the New York Times, CBS, Time etc. Perhaps it is no coincidence that they haven’t blown the lid off the Cosmic Watergate. Carl Bernstein, Co-Pulitzer Prize winner of 1973 of Watergate fame, had a 25,000 word article in Rolling Stone, October 20, 1977. It appears that the public was blissfully ignorant, despite those historians and Intelligence Experts

Visit Stan’s site . . .

See Also:

Ryan Wood and the Majestic Documents

MAJESTIC FOUND !

The Majestic Documents: A Forensic Linguistic Report (Pt 1)

MJ-12: The Only Fiction is The Majestic 12 Documents, Declares, Randle

MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

Roger Wescott, Roscoe Hillenkoetter and MJ-12

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle’s Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues …

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman’s Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman’s Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

“Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12” An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re “MJ-12”

SHARE YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

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MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

MJ-12: No Proof that TF,CT, or EBD Documents were Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

MJ-12: No Proof that TF, CT, or EBD Documents are Fraudulent, Argues Friedman

By Stanton Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
© 10-25-14

      First I want to thank Kevin Randle for providing another excellent example of the fictional approach to research. I notice he doesn’t mention Dr. Wescott’s outstanding background, details like having been a Rhodes Scholar, having been the president of the Linguistic Association of Canada and the US, having published almost 400 papers etc (there are 3 pages about him in my final Report on MJ-12). Second I did not use the term proof about his comments. This isn’t a math or physics problem. I arranged for papers to be given him. I would say he provided a preponderance of the evidence. I know of nobody better qualified to evaluate the question of whether RHH as opposed to some hoaxer prepared the EBD. Kevin also doesn’t mention that RHH was not some bungling character. He was an Annapolis graduate, had been the first director of the Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950 and in late 1952 was head of the 3rd Naval District in New York. Washington is not far away. We know that Walter B. Smith, his successor at the CIA had been directed by Truman to coordinate Intelligence briefings for Ike (see his letter p. E-9 in my Report). I have suggested that Typing would have been done at the CIA.

Several other anti MJ-12 articles have recently been posted. But they seem more like fiction than fact; lots of scenarios, but little data or evidence. Let me first summarize where I stand:

I have been on the story for just under 30 years. I believe I have written more than anyone else and done more digging in archives. I had a security clearance for 14 years and have made many visits to 20 archives. I was lucky enough to have a research grant from the Fund for UFO research. For some crazy reason extremist Milton William Cooper said I worked for the CIA and the grant was actually from them!! In fact the Fund had sent out a questionnaire to see what its members thought needed researching. Majestic 12 was selected and I was asked to submit a proposal, which I did. The money was actually raised mostly from the Prince of Liechtenstein. I wrote a 100 + page report of my findings after visits to various Archives such as the Library of Congress Manuscript Division, The National Archives, the Truman and Eisenhower Libraries, the Harvard and Princeton Archives, etc. I included correspondence between myself and Phil Klass and a copy of his check to me for $1000.00 for proving him totally wrong about the typeface on the Cutler Twining memo—typical false reasoning on the part of the MJ-12 debunkers. Because he had all of 9 NSC items done in elite type, he thought it sensible to claim that all NSC memos were done in elite type. Not surprisingly he had never, before or since, been to the Eisenhower Library which had 250,000 pages of NSC material. He had offered to pay me $100.00 for every item meeting his criteria, up to a limit of 10. I sent 14. He paid me, but didn’t bother to tell anybody. There is also no Friedman file in his papers at the American Philosophical Society Library despite 20+ years of correspondence. I wrote a book TOP SECRET/MAJIC and many papers and responded to a host of false claims and assumptions.

Most of this goes back a long while. I spoke with family members of all the MJ-members except 1. I spoke in person with General Twining’s pilot, and his daughter and 2 sons; with Admiral Hillenkoetter’s family; with George Elsey who worked at the Truman library the entire time Truman was there, etc. I had concluded that there are 3, possibly four genuine documents (The Truman Forrestal Memo, The Cutler Twining Memo and the Eisenhower Briefing Document) and a host of phony ones. I believe I have responded to all the anti claims. My focus has been on a host of details that turned out not to be known at the time the documents were received and on a number of fictional claims and a bunch of details that would seem beyond the ken of a hoaxer. For example it was claimed that since the briefing Officer Roscoe J. Hillenkoetter was titled Admiral, that proved the document was false because he had only been a Rear Admiral. The attack neglected to mention that all 6 military guys (2 Army, 2 Navy, 2 AF) were referred to by generic ranks—not just Hillenkoetter. Furthermore, I gathered documents at the Ike Library proving that was standard practice. A good example was provided by documents written by Brigadier General Andrew Goodpaster (Ike’s Staff secretary) referring to himself as General Goodpaster, but signing as Brigadier General Goodpaster. Two archivists supported that view. He always used generic ranks when listing attendees. The claim was interesting fiction.

Here are some other false claims covered in detail in my book, report, and papers:

1. The date format, “18 November, 1952” supposedly violates the government style manual and therefore the EBD is phony. I found many examples at Archives of the use of this and several other date formats. This was pre- word processors. False claim.

2. Supposedly the security marking on the Cutler Twining memo of TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was never used by the government until after Ike was out of office. The GAO in its huge report on its search for Roswell Documents noted that they had indeed found examples of this on a number of classified documents even though they had been told (MJ 12) that it was not used. I couldn’t get copies because the documents were still classified. Why would a hoaxer not just use a plain TOP SECRET? False claim.

3. The unsigned Cutler Twining memo supposedly had to be phony because Cutler was out of the country on July 14, 1954. Actually, it would have been a phony if it had been signed or there was an “/s/” next to his typed name. Really smart hoaxer.

We didn’t find out, thanks to Bob Todd, that Cutler was gone until later. I also found at the Ike Library, Cutler’s instructions to James Lay, Exec. Sec. of the National Security Council, “to keep things moving out of my in basket while I am gone.” I also found that Lay met with Ike that day and had a phone conversation with Ike at 4:30PM. George Elsey, White House Aide under Truman, told me after looking at the documents, that of course Lay (who sat next to Cutler at all NSC Meetings) would have prepared a brief memo to General Twining in Cutler’s name. He also could find no problem with the 3 documents or the names of the people on the MJ-12 List.

4. Several objected strenuously to the surprising notion that debunker Dr. Donald Menzel could have been fully aware of UFOs at Roswell, and still be the loudest UFO debunker in the 1950s and 1960s.They objected to my saying he led a double life, despite my very surprising discovery in his papers at the Harvard Archives that he was tightly connected with the NSA, CIA, cryptology and many other intelligence activities—as noted by him to President Kennedy. The critics complained but, so far as I can tell, none went to the Harvard Archives or the Kennedy library. I spent days there and had to get permission from 3 people to see Menzel’s papers. How did anybody know to include him on Majestic 12? They just happened to pick an extraordinary claim that turned out to be true??

5. Some complained that since the EBD says the distance to the Roswell crash site was approximately 75 miles, rather than 62 by car or 100 by plane, it was a fraud. Since when does “approximately” mean precisely or exactly? The Briefing was Preliminary and hardly a guide to how to get to the crash site.

6. Several debunkers claimed vigorously that the documents are phony because all Top Secret code word documents must (they said) have Top Secret control numbers. Two archivists (Eisenhower and Marshall Archives) told me this was nonsense. They had many TS docs that did not have Control numbers. I had even published some earlier. False claim.

7. As an example of irrational thinking it was pointed out that I have claimed that there were crash retrievals in the Plains of San Agustin and Aztec. Since none are mentioned in the EBD either, they never happened or it is fraudulent because they aren’t mentioned. There was nothing that said this was a complete picture of crash retrievals. On the contrary, it says it is preliminary. Neither of these two got news coverage whereas Roswell did.

8. Since the EBD says there was a crash near El Indio-Guerero on 06 December 1950, and I have found no evidence of it, the document must be phony. It also says the burned wreckage was taken to Sandia. I know of no way to gain access to that information since Sandia is a very high security nuclear weapons Lab. False claim. It is certainly not true that absence of evidence is evidence for absence.

9. Robert Hastings has noted that I had agreed in Brazil that it is conceivable that some smart government agent could have done an enormous amount of research to create the documents. I obviously couldn’t prove a negative. Yes, but no one has provided any evidence or facts or names or details establishing that that was the case. I know from all the time, money and effort I’ve spent how difficult that would have been and I started with the documents. This, of course, doesn’t explain how somebody knew all the details that weren’t known until well after the documents were received. Psychic??

10. Many have noted that Rick Doty was based in Albuquerque and that the EBD was postmarked Albuquerque. Albuquerque is a large city, the home of Kirtland and Sandia. This proves nothing. Nor does the fact that he was involved in disinformation.

11. I have trouble believing that it is just a coincidence that September 24, 1947, the date of the TF memo, was the only date in an 8 month period that Truman, Bush and Forrestal met together. Or that the CT memo was coincidentally done while Cutler was out of the country and therefore was not signed . . . very smart hoaxer. Or that August 1, 1950, when W.B. Smith was named to replace James Forrestal on MJ-12 was the only date in the first 10 months of 1950 when Truman met with Smith. I list a bunch more “coincidences” in my Final Report.

Yes, Rick Doty was involved with false documents re Bennewitz etc., and was the first to mention MJ-12. Where is there any evidence that he faked EBD knowing enough to pass inspection? Has he been shown to have visited the Truman, or Eisenhower or Harvard Archives, etc? Klass made all kinds of claims but never went to the Ike Library. Have Greenwood, Hastings, Randle, Rojas been to the Presidential Libraries or the various Archives? Do they have any idea how much effort I’ve spent trying to show the documents were phony?

Cannot the debunkers recognize that provenance would have revealed the identity of the crime committing informant? Hoaxers normally do as little as possible to call attention to strange details, like the offset and different typeface in the numerical portion of the date on the TF, or the absence of signature on TC, or the period after the date on TF.

In short then, fiction is not the same as nonfiction. Research requires facts, data, and evidence. Nobody has shown any to establish that the TF,CT, or EBD were fraudulent Scenarios are interesting but not evidence.

I am still looking for a list of reasons that each of the 3 (CT, TF, EBD) are fraudulent. I have shown that a number of so-called MJ-12 documents were indeed false based on direct evidence. For example, in the Book “Wedemeyer Reports” by General Wedmeyer, I found three items that were retyped and Xeroxed to keep the hand written portions–clearly emulations. I found a number of other emulations, proofs of hoaxing. I have yet to see any for the 3 genuine ones.

Visit Stan’s site . . .

See Also:

Roger Wescott, Roscoe Hillenkoetter and MJ-12

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle’s Final Word on The Matter?

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues …

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman’s Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman’s Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

“Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12” An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

An Historical Curio re “MJ-12”

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MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

By Stanton Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
© 10-8-14

Kevin:

     Thank you for once again demonstrating your illogicality and inaccuracy with regard to the MJ-12 documents. Your basic rule is: Absence of evidence is evidence for absence which is illogical. Let me be specific, though as you know from previous items I have written, I provided a long list of examples. You bring up Willingham again for reasons unknown. I have never said that his story proves anything. Of course I don’t have any evidence that there was a saucer crash at el Indio Guerrero. on 06 December, 1950.The document says ….”By the time the search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost totally incinerated. Such material as could be recovered was transported to the A.E.C. facility at Sandia, New Mexico, for study.” That was a nuclear weapons lab. As you are well aware, I do not have access to classified information about the results of that study or anything else. That surely doesn’t mean that there was no study done. I suspect that the search team was there because “the long trajectory” was observed on radar and would also have provided classified information.

You have described the response of Peter Tytel, a noted forensic Documents examiner to whom I had sent a copy of the EBD “it was just perfect because the whole thing of the twelve pages or however many pages it was. Most of the pages were blank pages with just five words written on them like TOP SECRET or Appendix A or something like that.” The fact is the EBD was 7 pages (plus the TF memo) and only one (page 7) had just Appendix A on it. Strangely you did not even include that page in your book. You quoted Tytel’s off hand remark that the typewriter was of much later vintage. A full professional evaluation by James Black paid for by Dr. Robert M Wood stated the typeface was from an Underwood Standard from May 1940.

Several authorities claimed that TOP SECRET Restricted was not used during Ike’s terms. The GAO found examples and said so. Blind Luck? The date of the TF was the only day in a many month period when Truman, Bush and Forrestal met. Blind Luck? The hoaxer threw a dart at a dart board and found the one time when Cutler was out of the country so didn’t sign the CT or put a /s/. Of course he blindly knew that Menzel would pass muster though nobody else did. He knew to put a period after the date on TF knowing that Bush always did. He knew that James Lay had been instructed to keep things moving out of Cutler’s in Basket. George Elsey, who worked for Truman all the time he was President , said Lay would have written the memo for Cutler (after I pointed out Lay’s instructions from Cutler and found that there was nothing wrong with the 3 documents, etc., ad nauseum). Also chose an unusual carbon paper but knew it would eventually pass muster.

Another example is that you claimed truly that nowhere did I find any mention of MJ-12 in Donald Menzel’s papers … no Marginal notes, no oblique references etc. Menzel according to his own words to Jack Kennedy had been connected to the NSA and its Navy predecessor for decades. I have seen no reference to this connection predating my discovery in his papers at the Harvard Archives. You expect him to have left classified notes and information lying around? There were no classified papers there. His secretary assured me that he was very careful about security. Remember that the 156 pages of NSA UFO documents finally released were classified TOP SECRET UMBRA and one could only read 1 line per page.

You are now claiming that Dr. Buskirk claimed that Gerald Anderson was in his anthro class.at Albuquerque High School. I have trouble believing that he did so claim. You will recall that I visited the high school and twice talked by phone to the student whom you claimed recalled Gerald from that class. He denied it even after I sent him and another student a copy of a picture of Gerald from the High School yearbook. Your evidence please—not your wishful thinking.

I have as you know, noted many pieces of data not known to be true until after we received the CT,TF, and EBD . How did a hoaxer know those?? Time travel such as invoked by the USAF when claiming Crash Test Dummies not dropped until 6 years after Roswell accounted for the Body stories? Why do you falsely claim that I said the TF signature “exactly matches” one on a Truman Bush letter? You made that up. I said “matches” not “exactly matches.” That is as bad as Klass saying Letter 9 times for the TF MEMO and his falsely claiming Pica Type wasn’t used at the NSC. He paid me $1000.00 for proving him wrong about that after I provided 14 examples.

Why don’t you mention the findings of world class linguistics expert Dr. Roger Wescott who reviewed 27 examples of Hillenkoetter writings including the EBD and said “in my opinion there is no compelling reason to regard any of these communications as fraudulent or to believe that any of them were written by any one other than Hillenkoetter himself. This statement holds for the controversial presidential briefing memorandum of November 18, 1952 ….” You talk about drafts being destroyed. Onionskin copies were all over the place. None of the three is a draft. “Preliminary briefing” is not a draft.

The person who filmed the TOP SECRET MAJIC briefing and distributed the film to a person without a clearance or need to know was guilty of a crime. A hoaxer would have finally said gotcha. Provenance is a silly argument. Want a written confession, too? You have a solid military background, but still falsely claimed that calling Hillenkoetter Admiral (instead of rear admiral) meant the EBD was phony. You asked for another item by him with a signature. There is no signature by RHH on the EBD In fact it was standard practice to use generic ranks as you would have known if you had gone to the Ike Library. It is a lot closer to you than it is to me.
Time to throw in the towel. The 3 items are genuine.

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MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

By Kevin Randle
The UFO Chronicles
© 10-7-14

     Seriously? You trot out that old chestnut? Do you make the same comments about writing fiction to Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope or Whitley Streiber or is it just me? Are you following the propagandist rule that if you say something loud enough and long enough someone will believe you?

I notice you continue to dodge the questions. You have no explanation for the lack of provenance. This is a major flaw.

Since you bring up Kaufmann, how about Gerald Anderson? He forged a document and admitted that. You know the diary he submitted about the 1947 event was written in ink that didn’t exist prior to 1973. And he took the class from Winfred Buskirk. How do I know? Because I was able to access the records before Anderson demanded that they be closed and those records proved that Anderson took Buskirk’s Anthropology course. I can say that now because those who helped me have retired. It was the same information that Buskirk received when he called his friends at Albuquerque High School and told me to check it out myself.

The December 6, 1950, alert has no relevance. It was based on a possible intrusion of American airspace by an unknown aircraft. It lasted about an hour and had nothing to do with a crash of anything in Mexico. Zechel changed the date of Willingham’s case for that very reason… and you have no idea what sources of information I have been able to tap.

But this second crash mentioned is the fatal flaw because it never happened outside of the mind of Robert Willingham. He invented the tale and this is the only source of information about it, unless, of course, you have something to prove it did happen.

And you haven’t bothered with the altered Truman signature on the memo. You forgot to mention that you approached Peter Tytell, a questioned document expert who told you to wash your hands of MJ-12 because the clues he found screamed hoax. And you know that he has not produced a written report because no one has paid his fee but anyone who talks to him learns the same things about that investigation.

You still haven’t commented on Bill Moore’s idea of creating a Roswell document. Nor have you commented on the original plan being laid out in his book Majik-12. Nor that Moore said the EBD contained disinformation which is, of course, a nice way to say that it filled with lies. And you haven’t mentioned Moore’s “confession” in Las Vegas that has badly damaged his credibility, which in turn, damages MJ-12. (And don’t ask how because it was Moore who provided the EBD to the world.)

No matter how many times you say it, you still haven’t been able to explain some of the major discrepancies. You are reduced to asking how the forger could have known some obscure facts when the answer is simple… blind luck. He also missed on some very big items.

Oh, by the way, drafts of highly classified documents are normally destroyed once the final is completed. They also destroy the notes, the typewriter ribbons and even the blank pages left on note pads to ensure that the information isn’t compromised. Until you can find some actual evidence of authenticity for the MJ-12 documents, these conversations go almost nowhere.

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MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues …

Stan Friedman & MJ-12

By Stanton Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
© 9-30-14

     I have always had a grudging admiration for Kevin’s ability to write fiction. Anybody who can write many dozens of novels deserves respect. I guess I can accept a smart computer that somehow says the opposite of the truth about the CT Memo. At least we both agree it is not signed and there is no /s/. But why not note that the absence of signature is a sign of genuineness? We didn’t know until well after the memo was discovered that Cutler was out of the country at that time. Why didn’t the supposed (mythical) hoaxer merely add one or the other?? He is accused of adding Truman’s signature. Why accuse me of saying the latter was an exact match to the one on the Bush letter? It was Kevin not me that said “exact” match. I have accepted the official findings of forensic document examiner Black as stated to Dr. Robert M. Wood that it was appended because of the feathering. Ike might well have preferred documents with signatures. Even Karl Pflock agreed that the CIA could have copied the signature.

Yes, let us talk about provenance. What is the basis for the claim that all leaked documents have a provenance? In this case the Provider of the EBD was guilty of a crime. A hoaxer wasn’t. As Kevin knows full well photographing and distributing a TOP SECRET Restricted document to somebody without an appropriate security clearance and need-to-know is a violation of the law. Hoaxing generally is not. Why not just say “gotcha?!” Suppose the CTM was taken by one of the declassifers (all of whom had high level clearance) and put in a jacket pocket and then later placed in Box 189? Two step process. Nobody would tell me their names.

Yes, let’s not argue about the distance to the crash site. We have a highly classified preliminary briefing about an extraordinarily important event which happened 5 years earlier. The approximate distance really doesn’t matter. Which route was taken?

How did the (mythical) hoaxer know that, contrary to the official claims made, that TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was in use?? Psychic I guess. How did he know that Donald Menzel would pass muster as having a very high security clearance and a very long connection with the NSA … psychic I guess.

I never talk about Willingham. What is meant by “we believed”? As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger: what do you mean “we”, white man? Why is it the fatal flaw? I know that I do not have access to classified files at Sandia or elsewhere and so far as I know, Kevin doesn’t either. That he didn’t find anything about an “El Indio- Guerrero” crash in the unclassified world means nothing. Any information about a crashed saucer recovered on December 6, 1950, and taken to Sandia would have been highly classified just as was any analysis of the Roswell, Plains of San Agustin, or Aztec crashes. December 6, 1950, was the date of a major security alert involving motion of an object(s) in the sky. Roswell and Kenneth Arnold were highly publicized events. The Plains and Aztec were not. I strongly recommend the outstanding and comprehensive research about Aztec done by Scott and Suzanne Ramsey as reported in “The Aztec Incident”… Bruce

Maccabee and Grant Cameron have written about the Dec.6, 1950 national security alert.

I don’t think Kevin has provided some sort of statement that this preliminary briefing would provide a listing and details of all saucer crashes. The first one provides the basic data saying Man is not alone… an incredibly important statement. The Briefing of Ike at the Pentagon on November 18, 1952, only lasted under 50 minutes. As stated “It should be regarded as introductory to a full operations briefing intended to follow.” Introductory surely doesn’t mean comprehensive.

I certainly am not impressed by a kind of guilt by association with Richard Doty and the Aquarius documents. Let us look at the EBD, CT, and TF. No, I don’t want to get into the false testimony of Frank Kaufmann and others. At least he admitted he had lied about taking Blanchard and Marcel to the Debris field. I still would like to know from those who say the 3 documents are phony and why they make that claim. How did anybody know the details that unexpectedly turned out to be true???

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MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman’s Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman's Debate Challenge

By Alejandro Rojas
The UFO Chronicles
9-22-14

    I cannot speak for others, but I certainly accept the challenge. All of the information I provided came from viable sources, and tells the FULL story. I do not understand how any complete analysis of the MJ-12 documents could not include the circumstances behind how they were brought to the public. These facts cannot be swept under the rug.

I highly respect Stanton and his work, and I included Stanton’s comments in my story, but with all due respect, although Menzel’s background is interesting, it is completely circumstantial and proves no connection to extraterrestrials. Just because the facts related to Doty, Moore, Shandera, and Bennewitz are complicated and difficult to understand and cast doubt on the veracity of the documents, they are still very pertinent. Using the uranium atoms analogy, the credibility of the scientists and the reputation of the labs where scientific tests are conducted are certainly weighed heavily when it comes to the veracity and accuracy of scientific claims.

It is too late to add such a debate to the roster of the 2015 International UFO Congress. We schedule that out many months in advance, and if you go to the event’s website you will see the line-up has been set. The only TBAs are people we are in the final process of confirming and have not yet announced their names. We certainly can look to holding such a debate in 2016. However, I propose that we debate this matter on Open Minds UFO Radio in the near future.

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MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

By Stanton Friedman
The UFO Chronicles
© 9-21-14

     I would hereby like to Publicly challenge Kevin and/or Robert Hastings, and/or Barry Greenwood, and/or Alejandro Rojas or all together to a debate about the legitimacy of the the Cutler Twining Memo, The Truman Forrestal memo, the Eisenhower Briefing Document. I have long acknowledged that there are a large number of phony documents out there. The question is whether those three are legitimate as I have demonstrated. I think an appropriate site would be during the IUFOC in February in Arizona.The debate I had 2 years ago there with John Alexander was very well attended.I have no idea why people think it is more important to talk about the machinations of Richard Doty, Bill Moore, Jaime Shandera, Paul Bennewitz etc than about all the facts that I noted which were not known to be true until after the documents were received.How did a hoaxer know those facts?As a nuclear guy I long ago leaned to focus on what is relevant. That 99.3% of uranium atoms in nature are not fissionable, tellls us nothing about the 0.3% that are. I would say let all sell their books What say you all?

fsphys@bellaliant.net

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