Tag Archives: Aztec

257. Free Show: Kevin Randle

Alejandro Rojas could not make the show, Kevin Randle discusses his thoughtful perspective on the recently released UFO documents (see show notes), what Top Secret Classified documents should and should not contain, as well as UFO incidents, hoaxes and more.

Show Notes

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Latest MJ-12 Documents: A Final Look

Latest MJ-12 Documents: A Final Look

     For those of you who tuned into Midnight in the Desert to listen to me discuss the latest MJ-12 document release, well, I was bumped early in the evening because Heather Wade had “overbooked the show.” At least I wasn’t dragged off by security for refusing to give up my place at the microphone… which couldn’t have happened since I was at home and she controlled the telephone system anyway.

But I did listen to the beginning of the program because like so many others, I wondered what Stan Friedman would say about the authenticity. Like many of us, he was interested in the source of the


By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
6-18-17

documents. They had seemed to excite him in earlier statements, but he now was somewhat more neutral though a careful reading of them should have given away the false nature of them… The mere mention that the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU) was involved should have been a huge red flag. The IPU has been identified and it has nothing to do with aliens or UFOs or anything of the nature. For more about the IPU see HERE.

I found one point hilarious and which nearly everyone has failed to mention. The first page says, “READ-AND-DESTROY. I have to wonder how the document survived with that instruction on the first page, which also argues against authenticity. I will note here that a top secret document’s destruction must be documented saying that it has been properly destroyed. Whoever “stole” this one would have had to violate that rule because he would have had to sign the destruction form.

Heather wouldn’t name names, and in one respect I understand that but that also tends to undermine the validity of the documents. She did say that the person who “stole” them originally had died so that he or she can’t be questioned about how he or she gained possession of them.

Heather hadn’t received the originals either. They had come to her in a .pdf file, which, as I have noted in the past, does not allow for much in the way of a forensic analysis of the paper, ink or anything else that might be gained by examination of the originals. We are left with a study of the format, the font, if the documents conformed to others created at the highest-levels of the government and if the documents fit into our current understanding of the situations being discussed in them.

Instead of analysis of these latest documents on the show, we were treated to another waltz down MJ-12 memory lane from the alleged moment the original documents first arrived at Jaime Shandera’s house in 1984 to the point we have reached now. There was nothing new here, other than listening to Stan talk about all his visits to archives, and he enjoys to do so (and hey, that is fun going through all this material, looking for that single and often elusive nugget) and things he had learned about the men who were named to the original MJ-12 committee, all of which was irrelevant to understanding these new documents.

For those who haven’t looked at them yet, though they can now be accessed through a variety of websites including that for Midnight in the Desert. You can still find them HERE if you are still interested.

I have outlined some of the many mistakes in these documents already and find it difficult to believe that something created at this level would be so riddled with errors. I am sorely tempted to enumerate the errors in the Roswell section but will refrain from doing that. Anyone interested can take a look at Roswell in the 21st Century(or almost any of the other Roswell books) and compare the information there with that in this document. The errors will be apparent and we have to think that anyone who was far enough inside of the loop to be writing this document would be cognizant of the facts of the case.
I’m going to move onto the Aztec case which was covered in depth here. Stan had made a big deal out of the research in Scott Ramsey’s book while he was on Midnight in the Desert and how careful and meticulous it has been. But this document is at a wide variance with what Ramsey published. This sets up a conundrum… if the document is accurate, then Ramsey is wrong but if Ramsey is right, then the document is fake and I haven’t even mentioned the possibility that both are wrong and Aztec is a hoax.

According to the document, on March 25, 1948, the craft was watched on three radars “belonging to the recovery network of the White Sands Test Range and located in classified areas of southwest New Mexico.” In 1948, it was the White Sands Proving Ground, and if the radars were in southwest New Mexico, that would have prevented tracking of the object to low altitudes in northern New Mexico because the mountainous terrain would have been in the way. In fact, once you get very far north of White Sands, their radars aren’t much good for an object below 10,000 feet. Radar is line of sight.

Again, according to the document, the crash site was secured by 10:45 p.m. that night, which meant that no civilians would have been gathered at the site on the morning of March 25 to watch the military arrive because the object had yet to crash according to these new documents. And, if the civilians were on hand to see the military to arrive, it would have had to be on the morning of March 26, but then the site was already secured and the civilians would have been prevented from getting near.

We are treated to a reference to the base at Flat Rock, Nevada, which, of course, was the scene of much of the action in The Andromeda Strain. We learn that the Blue Berets (whoever they are… no, they don’t exist) came in disguised as National Guard, but I’m not sure how you pull that off since the uniforms worn by the National Guard are the same wore by those on active duty with the Army. I suppose they removed their Blue Berets and wore regulation headgear.

UFO Crash at Aztec

But there really doesn’t seem much reason to drag this out. The documents are faked. I spoke with Stephen Bassett yesterday afternoon, and almost the first thing he said to me was that he too thought the documents faked. We discussed some of the bloopers in text, the problems with the classification markings, and all the other errors. Bassett said that he didn’t think these were disinformation, but more likely just someone outside the government who had too much time on his hands. I’ll add someone who didn’t actually know much but who had gotten his hands of William Steinman’s book UFO Crash at Aztec.

What we need to do now is place these documents in the same file folder with the Roswell Slides, the alien autopsy and little grey men who like strawberry ice cream and Tibetan music. Footnotes in the great journal of UFO information, or maybe, even better, have them all deleted from anything to do with UFO research because they have only distracted us. They have added nothing to our knowledge.

Continue Reading ►

See Also:

The Majestic 12 Documents Are Back …

Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit Summary – July 22, 1947

Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (Pt II)

MJ-12: New Document Dump, Labeled ‘Ultra Top Secret’

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

An Historical Curio re “MJ-12”

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues …

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman’s Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman’s Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

“Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12” An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Read more »

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MJ-12: New Document Dump, Labeled ‘Ultra Top Secret’

MJ-12 Ultra Top Secret

MJ-12 – New Documents, Old Story

     Okay, I’ve had time to review the document carefully, or rather given it a solid first reading and I have some points to make. I will note here that in my talks with Stephen Bassett, he suggested that all of us, meaning Stan Friedman, Richard Dolan, him and me, create a list of what our first impressions are, and the things that we spotted right off the top. I thought that idea had some merit. We’re not looking to authenticate or debunk, only at the things that disturbed us in some fashion.

I did ask Heather Wade about the source, or sources, and she didn’t


By Kevin Randle
A Different Perspective
6-15-17

give me names, only that they were ex-military and had possessed the documents for a very long time. She didn’t know which government agency had originated them, and there seemed no way to verify them through government sources. We also seem to suffer from the same problems that we’ve always had and that is that we’re working from copies and not originals. This makes the whole process problematic… and I think we can point to many cases in which copies of documents have turned out to be forgeries (think CBS and George W. Bush’s military records and any number of MJ-12 documents).

The classification markings on the documents do not seem to be consistent with authenticity, that is, the classification is not marked at both the top and the bottom of the document.

The dating format, 07 July, 1947, is not one that was in use in 1947, but I suppose you could argue that this format is consistent with the other MJ-12 documents even if it is more consistent with a dating format used by Bill Moore.

The use of “Ultra Top Secret” also raises questions. Ultra was the British code name for their operation to intercept and read high-level, highly-classified Nazi message traffic. This code name seems inappropriate for use by the US government or military. In keeping with that, there are several mentions that these documents are classified “Above Top Secret,” but really is a misnomer… Top Secret is the highest classification, but the number of people allowed to review certain documents can be further restricted by adding code word. Only those who are code word cleared would have access to the document and by adding a second code word you restrict the numbers even further. So, if there are two code words, you have a document that can be said to be two points above top secret, though that is not actually fact. While we can argue the semantics of this, I don’t believe someone on the inside would talk of a document being classified two points above top secret, but rather suggesting it was double code word protected.

The description of the Roswell case, and the chronology is not accurate based on all the documented evidence available. As but a single example, the document tells us that Mack Brazel alerted the authorities at Roswell Army Air Forces base (which is not the correct name of the facility) at “05:18” (which should have been written as 0518 hrs) though it is clear that it was the sheriff who alerted the Army and Major Marcel himself said that he learned about it as he was eating lunch.

One of the major red flags is, “At his arrival in Roswell, General Twining relieved Colonel Blanchard of command…” There is no evidence of any such order. The relief of a commanding officer is a major event. Had Twining arrived in Roswell and assumed command by virtue of being the senior officer present, that is not the same thing.

UFO Crash at Aztec By Bill Steinman
I’m going to leave the Roswell segment here, though I see many other problems, and move onto the “Aztec UFO Crash,” which is featured more prominently (which means I’m not even going to discuss the fraudulent IPU). As I was reading this, I though the same thing that one of the commenters made on the previous post, that is, I was reminded of William Steinman’s nonsensical book, UFO Crash at Aztec. If we compare this to Scott Ramey’s book, The Aztec Incident, the chronology here is all wrong. If we accept Ramsey’s book as accurate, then the document fails.
In this document, they have given the times which had been Mountain Standard Time, to what they call Local Time or LT. If this was strictly a military document, I would have expected the times to be converted to Greenwich Mean Time or Zulu Time. Not really a fatal flaw but one that seems to be out of place.

I’m now going to skip all the trouble with the Aztec aspect of this simply because there is so much that is simply wrong. And if this is a real briefing, where is the mention of Del Rio, Plains of San Agustin and Kingman?

Anyway, we are now treated to the transcript between an EBE and an assortment of interviewers who are never named for a reason that I can’t fathom (unless, of course, they don’t exist). At first glance, I was drawn to the comment about why the aliens had coming to Earth for centuries and learned, “And we like trees?” I wondered if this was the same group of aliens that liked strawberry ice cream and Tibetan music.

I did mention this to Stephen Bassett who wondered if someone had gone to all the trouble to fake the documents, all the study that it had taken and the time to create it, if he or she would then sabotage the effort with some ridiculous, off the wall comment about liking trees.

My first reaction was to think that was an interesting point, but I had yet to carefully read the document. Having now done so, I see that there really is nothing new here. The information about Roswell is wrong, the name of the base is wrong, the chain of command is wrong, and even the higher headquarters at Fort Worth is wrong (it wasn’t the 5th Air Force, but the 8th).

The Aztec material is derivative of Steinman’s book, the MJ-12 information is taken from there (or maybe from any of Stan Friedman’s many writings on it), and there is nothing that is suggestive of advanced scholarship. The writing does not sound as if it came from a government source, and without names, without government agencies, without any way to check things out, this just doesn’t seem to be authentic. I withheld my opinion on this, just announcing it so others would have a chance to review the documents, but it is now clear that this does nothing to further our knowledge and just confuses an already confused issue.

Continue Reading ►

See Also:

MJ-12: The Hoax That Quickly Became a Disinformation Operation

Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

UPDATE 1:
Operation Bird Droppings
The MJ-12 Saga Continues:

An Historical Curio re “MJ-12”

Bird Droppings and MJ-12, Stanton Friedman Responds . . .

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Alejandro Rojas Rebukes Stanton Friedman

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Stanton Friedman Counters

MJ-12 Debate Continues: Kevin Randle Queries Stanton Friedman

MJ-12: Stanton Friedman Fires Back; The Disputation with Kevin Randle Continues …

MJ-12: Kevin Randle Rails Against Stanton Friedman’s Rebuttal

MJ-12: Alejandro Rojas Accepts Stanton Friedman’s Debate Challenge

MJ-12: Renowned Ufologist, Stanton Friedman Issues Debate Challenge To Naysayers

More False Claims About Majestic 12

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 1

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 2

The Myth of MJ-12: Appendix A –Pt 3

“Appendix A: The Myth of MJ-12” An Annotated Commentary By Barry Greenwood

REPORT YOUR UFO EXPERIENCE

Read more »

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Huge Sphere apparently descends into the crater of the Iztaccíhuatl Volcano, Mexico – Video

Iztaccíhuatl is a 5,230 m dormant volcanic mountain in Mexico located on the border between the State of Mexico and Puebla. It is the nation’s third highest, after Pico de Orizaba 5,636 m and Popocatépetl 5,426 m.

This mountain is surrounded by mystery and legends that goes back to the Aztecs and even to previous cultures.

One of the mysteries: The unexplained lights that appear above the volcano. On April 4, 2017 a web camera recorded a huge Sphere which increases in brightness before it apparently descends into the crater of the volcano.

We may wonder whether these returning lights have something to do with an Aztec legend.

According to Aztec mythology, Iztaccíhuatl was a princess who fell in love with one of her father’s warriors, Popocatépetl.

The emperor sent Popocatépetl to war in Oaxaca, promising him Iztaccíhuatl as his wife when he returned (which Iztaccíhuatl’s father presumed he would not).

Iztaccíhuatl was falsely told Popocatépetl had died in battle, and believing the news, she died of grief.

When Popocatépetl returned to find his love dead, he took her body to a spot outside Tenochtitlan and kneeled by her grave. The gods covered them with snow and changed them into mountains.

Iztaccíhuatl’s mountain is called “White Woman” (from the nahuatl iztac “white” and cihuatl “woman”) because it resembles a woman lying on her back, and is often covered with snow.

 

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UFO Crash at Aztec – The Roswell Connection | 69th Anniversary

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UFO Crash at Aztec The Roswell Connection | 69th Anniversary

     As a kid growing up in Aztec, NM in the late 1940’s to the late 1950’s, I had heard many rumors and talk about the UFO crash north of Aztec. The other kids at school would occasionally discuss the event and when and where it occurred. I also remember going outside at recess and looking at some of the mass UFO formations in the area about 1950.

For the old time Aztec folks, I attended Mrs. Martin’s 2nd grade class in the old 4 room, red brick, 2 story schoolhouse. There were big enclosed fire escape slides from the second floor. It was located on the site where the “new” high school was constructed in the mid-1950’s.

By Virgil J. Riggs
The UFO Chronicles
© 2004-2017

I had heard my Dad and other roughnecks in the oil “patch” discuss the crash and the “little guys inside!” I don’t think my dad seriously believed the event occurred, as he was not witness to the happenings. But the subject of the crash was the topic of many conversations at The Gas Cap Café, The Aztec Café; Bill’s Place Bar, and The Highway Lounge. I went to all of these places with my dad. While we were looked down upon as “oilfield trash,” the so-called “good” people of Aztec had no problem cashing my Dad’s oilfield paychecks.

I went into the US Air Force in March of 1960. Was stationed at Bolling AFB, Washington, D.C. and later at Kunsan AB, Korea. After the isolated tour of duty in Korea, I was allowed my choice of duty assignments. I opted for a consecutive overseas assignment, and I asked for Japan, England, France, or anyplace in Europe. In 1964, I was assigned to the U. S. munitions base at RAF Welford, Newbury, Berkshire, England.

Duty in England was good. I bought a little English car, a Morris Minor. My sister in Farmington, NM mailed me a NM State University window sticker, which I put in the window of the little car.

I was at work at the base motor pool one day when a fellow from the vehicle maintenance shop walked across the street and asked if I was from New Mexico, as he had seen the sticker on my car. We introduced ourselves. His family name was XXXX, with the nickname of “Sam.” We compared past duty stations, and realized that we had both been stationed in Korea about the same time! I was at Kunsan AB, and Sam had been at Osan, AB in 1963/1964, before we were both reassigned to RAF Welford in England.

I told Sam XXXX that I was from the 4-Corners area of New Mexico and he asked me if I ever lived in Aztec? I told Sam XXXX that I had indeed lived in Aztec and that I knew the area and town fairly well. Sam said that he had been in Aztec briefly in 1948. I assumed that he had been in the oilfield. Sam suggested that we meet at the Airman’s Club after dinner and talk. I agreed.

Our conversation was pretty much about Aztec. I asked Sam XXXX why he was so interested in Aztec, NM?

Sam asked me what all I knew about the UFO crash at Aztec in 1948? I told him that I had heard about it for most of my life, but that I had no direct knowledge about it. Sam XXXX then asked me if I thought we were alone in the universe? I replied that I thought there had to be intelligent life out there somewhere. Sam told me that he knew for a fact there was life from elsewhere, as he had seen some actual “little bodies” and that he had been involved with the UFO crash retrieval at Aztec, NM in March of 1948! He had been stationed at Roswell, NM and was flown with a group of USAF personnel to Durango, CO by C-47 (DC-3) aircraft, then driven on down to the crash site.

Sam told me that he had seen the bodies at the Aztec crash site, as they were loaded onto a truck. He did not tell me if the bodies were in body bags, caskets, or preserved in any way, but he thought they were placed in the cargo truck for protection from the elements and out of sight. He thought the bodies were eventually moved to Ohio by road transportation and that the craft was moved by road transportation to the new secure airport at Las Alamos, NM. Sam also related that a light, spring, snowstorm had occurred while the detachment was at the crash site before the craft was dismantled and removed. Sam was amazed that snow and ice accumulated on the military vehicles, but there was no accumulation on the craft’s surface.

I asked Sam XXXX about food and quarters for the troops while at Aztec. Sam said they were on the crash site 24/7 and never left. They were provided food rations and sleeping bags. Sleep in shifts was in, under, or in the cargo bed of some of the military vehicles. No tents or cots or hot chow was available. Latrine facilities were in the brush. Sam XXXX’ main duty was to provide perimeter security of the crash site, to keep unauthorized persons away. Sam XXXX was at the very bottom in the chain of command, and was a very young trooper at the time.

We carried on this conversation for the next three years in which Sam’s story was never changed, enhanced, or embellished. Sam XXXX warned me not to talk about the event at Aztec, as talking about the UFO crash had caused his US Air Force career to suffer badly. He was the only A/2C (E-3) with nearly 20 years of service that I had ever met. I was 22 years old, and Sam was in his late 30’s. Sam XXXX always looked over his shoulder, and always ended our conversations that perhaps “he had talked too much already.”

Sam XXXX and I both were advanced to A/1C (E-4) about the same time at RAF Welford. Sam and I both got married about the same time in 1965. We both moved into the married quarters on the base at RAF Welford, into trailer houses next to each other for nearly three years. Sam is a good friend, and I certainly hope that he can be located. I hope that he survived Vietnam!

I went back to the US for separation from the US Air Force and entry into the US Navy Seabees, in July of 1968. Repeated tours of Vietnam followed. Sam XXXX went directly to an air base in Vietnam, I think, about the same time. Have not seen or heard about Sam XXXX since. As I am now 63 years of age, Sam XXXX will be about 83 years of age or more.

I heard Stanton Friedman on a radio program one evening in 2003 talking about Scott Ramsey and his research into the 1948 UFO crash at Aztec, NM. Mr. Friedman asked for anyone with any knowledge of the event to e-mail him. I sent an e-mail and it was forwarded to Scott Ramsey.

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Aztec UFO Incident Still Debated 69 Years Later | VIDEO

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Aztec UFO Incident Still Debated 69 Years Later

      AZTEC — Saturday marks the 69th anniversary of an incident that is still up for debate. Some claim that March 25, 1948, an alien spacecraft landed or crash-landed in Heart Canyon.
By J.R. Oppenheim
www.kob.com
3-24-17

“Hundreds of military and intelligence documents that since the Freedom of Information Act and research shows that something happened here, and something happened in and around Aztec,” Brooks Marshall as he stood below the bluff where a few books and other research claim the craft landed.

From below, there isn’t much to see. A photo Marshall produced showed that the site below the supposed crash site used to have many tanks used for some manner of gas production. Marshall said he can confirm the picture, he moved to the area in the 1970s, working at El Paso Natural Gas.

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UFO Crash at Aztec – The Roswell Connection (Redux)

UFO Crash at Aztec – The Roswell Connection

By Virgil J. Riggs
The UFO Chronicles
© 2004-2016

     As a kid growing up in Aztec, NM in the late 1940’s to the late 1950’s, I had heard many rumors and talk about the UFO crash north of Aztec. The other kids at school would occasionally discuss the event and when and where it occurred. I also remember going outside at recess and looking at some of the mass UFO formations in the area about 1950.

For the old time Aztec folks, I attended Mrs. Martin’s 2nd grade class in the old 4 room, red brick, 2 story schoolhouse. There were big enclosed fire escape slides from the second floor. It was located on the site where the “new” high school was constructed in the mid-1950’s.

I had heard my Dad and other roughnecks in the oil “patch” discuss the crash and the “little guys inside!” I don’t think my dad seriously believed the event occurred, as he was not witness to the happenings. But the subject of the crash was the topic of many conversations at The Gas Cap Café, The Aztec Café; Bill’s Place Bar, and The Highway Lounge. I went to all of these places with my dad. […]

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Silas Newton is Innocent and Will Fight Charges, says Son| 67th ANNIVERSARY of THE AZTEC UFO CRASH

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Revelations of The Aztec UFO Crash (Redux) | 67th ANNIVERSARY

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Scott & Suzanne Ramsey Discuss The Aztec UFO Crash with Mack Maloney – Tonight (1-21-15)

Scott & Suzanne Ramsey Discuss The Aztec UFO Crash with Mack Maloney

By Mack Maloney
1-21-15

     Scott & Suzanne Ramsey will be guests this Wednesday night on “Mack
Maloney’s Military X-files Show,” talking about “The Aztec Incident,”
considered by many to be the definitive UFO crash and recovery story–Mack Maloney

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